Dr. Jackie Stone & Dr. Martin Gill: We Can’t Afford Not to Treat
Dr. Jackie Stone & Dr. Martin Gill: We can’t afford not to treat
Dr. Stone is a family medicine physician based in Zimbabwe. Dr. Gill is an ENT specialist based in South Africa. Together they discuss their experience treating people with Covid-19, the importance of early treatment, and the use of silver for Covid-19.
This is an edited segment from the weekly live General Assembly meeting on January 10, 2022. The full meeting can be viewed here.
Here’s what WCH members, staff, and coalition partners are saying about Dr. Stone and Dr. Gill’s presentation:
“Dr Gill & DR Stone’s work is brilliant.” -Jennifer
“I 100% agree aggressive early treatment is essential to stop this disease.” -Dr. Kat Lindley
“It is so important to take away patient’s fear… Thank you for your great presentation Dr. Gill.” -Dr. Maria Hubmer-Mogg, AUT
“Excellent presentation and work. Very impressive!” -Dr Mark Trozzi MD
“Thank you Dr Gill – a wonderful, concise presentation.” -Ros Nealon-Cook
“Great representation of the ineffectiveness of current public health dogma.” -Rochagné Kilian (CAN)
“TY for an excellent presentation.” -Will Dove
“Thank you for a great presentation!” -Dr. Kat Lindley
“I have used nano-silver in many patients in both the outpatient and ICU setting – I have probably prescribed it to more than 150 patients now. No patient has reported any side effect, but many test to significant symptom relief and I have observed its marginal impact on saturations in the ICU setting. At the end of the day is doing the best we can through an appreciation of the underlying science.” -Nathi Mdladla
“With you 100% Jackie – I’ve done a lot of work on Ag NPs/ionic silver and am a huge supporter of it. I’ve especially worked with Argentyn23!” -Rob Verkerk
[00:00:00] [00:00:37] Shabnam Palesa Mohamed: With that being said, of course, I’m very sure that our speakers are already in the room with us. [00:00:43] So let’s introduce them: Dr. Jackie Stone is, is a Zimbabwean primary care physician who graduated from the University of Cape town in 1989. As I think she has a scholarship to do an honors degree in medical biochemistry, she went to the UK, she worked. So her main interest was HIV. And during this time she was involved with introduction of combination antiviral therapy, very relevant [today], as the cornerstone of successful treatment and prevention of the HIV pandemic. [00:01:12] She’s also worked in the middle east in the airline industry. Um, and of course she has, she’s learned a lot about risk benefit assessment, hypoxia, infectious diseases, et cetera. She’s developed an interest in integrative medicine, very important. She returned to Zimbabwe in 2015 and is now the executive committee of the Zimbabwe COVID frontline clinicians, society who advocate to saving lives to early safe, effective and affordable combination therapy. [00:01:41] Of course, she’s used professor Thomas Borody’s combination therapy, and she’s worked with Dr. Sabine Hazan and I’m very glad to have interviewed Dr. Jackie Stone on quite a few occasions, uh, Dr. Martin Gill, uh, we’ll be, uh, partnering or co-piloting with, um, with Dr. Jackie Stone today, and a little more about him. [00:02:04] He is a ENT surgeon graduated from Betsy here in South Africa in 1993. He’s in private practice, uh, to present at Four Ways Life Hospital. And of course he also shares with us that he trained as an aviation medicine doctor. He was awarded the military award for the best working ENT surgeon, started an IT company where he manages doctor communities and now has extended to the general public. In December, 2020 he decided to give a lecture to as many doctors. And that was the first time Ivermectin had been discussed in South Africa. Uh, there were about 30,000 hits on that talk by the following day. [00:02:43] He then got very involved in changing policies as well as legal action. And of course he mentions, he’s met Dr. Jackie Stone and they’ve been working very closely together. So on that note, let’s hand over the mic or presentation to Dr. Jackie Stone and Dr. Martin Gill. We can’t afford not to treat powerful early antiviral therapy. That includes Silver. Over to you, Doctors. [00:03:09] Dr. Martin Gill: Okay. Um, next slide. So in order to decide, um, whether we should be treating, um, early, I went to the WHO site and, um, they basically said, when you feeling sick, you must find your local health authority and they get a whole, um, a whole list of signs and symptoms. [00:03:31] And then if you think you’ve got, COVID just stay at home for 10 days, which is good advice. And, um, if you’re getting worse than you must find your, your national health authority. [00:03:40] So I thought I’d see what our national health authority had to say, and they say symptomatic relief, paracetamal, non-steroidal antiinflammatory. [00:03:49] So basically they’re not treating. They advise to rest and have hydration. That’s good. And not of course, cortisones too early in the disease. That’s good. And then they said, when treating mild COVID, there is no clear evidence of benefit of using vitamins, zinc, aspirin, anticoagulation, ivermectin, or other medications. [00:04:09] So they’re basically telling us like, nothing works; so don’t try. And then they’ve got this last little thing they were saying, most people get better, but however, some will get sick and they have to go to a hospital where obviously they’ll get very sick and some die. So they’re saying don’t treat and then we’ll find out who’s really, um, we need to be worried about my problem is if I want one of the ones that gets very sick. [00:04:32] I’m wondering why I wasn’t treated earlier, so I didn’t get sick. And that’s what the problem is. We need to be treating earlier, so we don’t get sick. Now we all know the slide. It comes from the FLCCC site and you probably know what I’m going to say. Anyhow, what happens is we have, um, viral, um, inoculation and incubation. [00:04:52] And the virus then starts to grow in numbers. So you get a bigger viral load. And then our innate, and other arms of our immune system start to pick up and eventually they kill the virus so by day 10, we don’t have any, um, live virus around, usually. Now that has triggered a whole immune cascade, which leads ultimately to immune dysregulation, if it is overstimulated and why would it be overstimulated? [00:05:21] Because the viral load presented to our immune system is greater then it can cope, then it’s used to coping with, and it seems to go out of control and you get a cytokine storm, and that’s where the problem lies. [00:05:36] So logically to me, the way to stop this happening is to stop the virus replicating. That means you have to be treating in that early phase. [00:05:44] So, um, Jackie and I got together and we put together protocols to help people. I’m just going to scream through these, cause we’ve only got 15 minutes, but basically, um, the prophylaxis has got Ivermectin, zinc, quercetin and vitamins with colloidal silver spray. [00:06:02] If you do have an exposure, so you bumped into someone, you don’t have a mask on. Then we started our mixing 0.3 milligrams per kilogram, because anything less than that really doesn’t work. And then we use the usual culprits there. This time we do, colloidal silver, nebulizing to try and sterilize the nose and the airway. [00:06:26] And then once you’ve diagnosed positive, um, we have more or less the same thing. We have the triple therapy of ivermectin, doxycycline and zinc. Then the usual culprits , the vitamin C, D, quercetin. And here we add aspirin, melatonin, and then colloidal silver. But now we use colloidal silver more aggressively. [00:06:46] And our reason for using colloidal silver is it works quickly and it starts turning the, um, decreased oxygen saturation around and they come up very quick. Uh, it’s very nice because the patients feel better and you can start feeling more comfortable with the treatment. [00:07:03] [Inaudible]. So let’s do a back story of what happened and why Jackie and I put together these protocols. [00:07:10] So early in the pandemic, there’s very little information on how to treat SARS-CoV-2. And the other problem we had is when anything significant came up, it got taken off, um, YouTube or wherever it was. So it was difficult to get information. [00:07:25] And Jackie and I were dealing with different problems. She was in Zimbabwe with a completely failed government health care system. And the reason why the system of health had failed is because there was a strike on. So she had no beds, no hospital beds that you could send the patients to. And that forced her to treat all our patients at home. And because of that, she had to start thinking, well, how do we actually do this? And came up with, um, very, um, effective treatment regime. [00:07:58] I was in South Africa where I was dealing with a different problem and being an ENT surgeon, I wasn’t, um, involved in the treatment of patients in the hospital. So I had to, um, reserve my treatments to outside the hospital. And the problem that I was dealing with them was an old age home with patients over eight years old requiring intubation and ventilation, but none of the us use would take these patients because they were getting preference for the younger patients and are starting to use our mission very effectively there and actually getting these patients to survive. [00:08:33] The silver that, um, ju uh, Jackie’s protocol it was also very good in that they were getting quickly quick, quickly, better than she was having problems down the line with a few deaths occurring every now and then we added ivermectin to her protocol, we literally turned off death, off mortality. [00:08:51] So, um, that’s where we, um, on our next next slide. So the rationale behind this is we, we decided you had to had to inhibit viral replication. So this was for early stages of the treatment, and we used Prof. Borody’s triple therapy philosophy, and he’s got a lot of experience treating chronic diseases like AIDS with, um, uh, RNA viruses. [00:09:18] And his experience is that if you don’t use triple therapy, you get resistance very quickly and using multiple drugs and you have an increase in interest, very low viral elimination. So that all fitted in with what we were trying to do. We were trying to reduce the viral load for Don’s life and our triple therapy with ivermectin, doxycycline and zinc. [00:09:40] So why did we choose ivermectin? Well, ivermectin is a remarkable drug because it has so many different modes of actions that inhibits the virus at so many different levels that inhibits the viral, um, attachment to the ACE-2 receptor the TNPRSS2 protein is inhibited by the virus by ivermectin so the virus can’t emerge with the cell membrane. It stops the important protein. So the virus can send messages to the nucleus to turn off the, um, uh, intercellular immunity. Um, it also blocks, um, uh, inflammatory pathways that lead to the cytokine storm. So you get a reduction in aisle six and TNF when, um, we’re using ivermectin and also it’s felt that it has a role to play in reducing the thrombotic episodes. [00:10:36] So one of the theories is that the spike protein is, um, uh, attaching to receptors on the red blood cells and endothelial cell. And these can be completely broken down by other excellent. [00:10:55] Doxycycline is there, because it’s an ionosphore for zinc, which is one of our main forms of treatment. But if you’re going to get an ionophore you might as well get one that works. [00:11:05] So it inhibits SARS-CoV-2 replication, it inhibits viral entry to the cell. It’s an antibiotics that’s going to help you with secondary infections. And it’s an anti-inflammatory next slide please. And zinc’s used, zinc is a remarkable, completely remarkable, element. It has so many different roles to play in inflammation that their pages or the things that it does, but the ones that I’m just going to mention here, it inhibits viral replication and improves the innate and acquired immunity, stops viruses entering the cells, it speeds up ciliary action. Um, it needs to get into the cell. That’s why, we put doxycycline, um, and enhances all of the white blood cells that are involved in our cellular immunity. And there’s just a whole other list of them. So zinc is a very important addition to our treatment. [00:12:06] And then we’ve got nano silver or colloidal solver. Now this is a, um, very important, uh, in part because works very well. And, um, the colloidal silver works by destroying any of the viruses in the way. It disrupts the primitive membrane, attaches to the phosphate in the membrane and then destroys the membrane. But it also, um, it activates DNA RNA and the ATP. So the virus is totally non-functioning if it comes into contact with silver. [00:12:38] Nano silver, which is the very small particles that you get in silver, um, work by attaching to the spike protein. And this is work that was done in, um, Israel. And what they found is using electron microscopes. They could see the nanoparticles actually painting a layer over the top of the spike protein, and they feel that this might’ve been happening because of, um, opposite charges. [00:13:07] So what happens is you now have a layer of silver over the spike protein, which then gives the spike protein the same charge as the ACE 2 receptor. And therefore it’s a lot more difficult for it to, for them to bind as there are probably repelling each other. Um, the other interesting, another interesting product of nano silvers is an in vitro study showing that it mops up cytokines and mops up aisle six and TNF, and, um, at therapeutic levels, it is mopping up about 80% of them, which is far more significant than monoclonal antibodies and cortisone does. [00:13:48] And I think that’s one of the reasons why when you use silver in a short period of time within an hour or two patients who are already feeling significantly better, and then the last function of silver, which Jackie and I think plays a role, but there’s no real proof of it is that an industry, they use nano silver to transport oxygen, because it carries 10 times its weight in oxygen. [00:14:12] And, um, when you nebulize with silver a very, um, in a very short period of time, they start, um, improving their saturations. And we’re not sure, but we think this could be playing part of the role in it. [00:14:26] The other routine medication we use is vitamin D, but I mean, that is so important. And I, um, I just find it so strange that no government are saying everyone used between D. Vitamin D is essential for the innate immunity, immune system. [00:14:40] The reason for that is the vitamin D receptor is a sector that is triggered when a macrophage, um, phagocytosis the coronavirus. Without vitamin D. That process is not going to happen. And vitamin D also, um, uh, there’s an inverse relationship between, between the and CRP. So people who have got high levels of vitamin D have lower CRPs and therefore far less likely to be, um, affected by cytokine storm. [00:15:11] Um, that reduces disease severity reduces mortality by 60%. It’s really a remarkable, um, vitamin. And I think that’s what we should all be on. [00:15:24] Vitamin C reduces oxygen species, radical oxygen species. That’s like the poison in the cell that floats around during inflammation and by removing it, everything should function better. [00:15:37] And there are. Um, a growing group of doctors who are finding, if you give high doses of intravenous vitamin C, the patients get better quickly, like in short periods of time, 24 hours. Um, and vitamin C is part of the process of producing collagen. So it’s very important for college and synthesis and repair next slide, and then magnesium or magnesium is used in so many, um, metabolic pathways that we, we need it. It stabilizes membranes, it stops, stop the arrhythmias in, um, ICU. [00:16:15] And it also, um, reduces clotting. So that’s also very important in COVID. Um, but it gets used up very quickly. So in order to maintain normal function, um, we need to be replacing magnesium. The other, the other things you’ve got to watch with COVID. So initially, you get a patient who may just really got these few like symptoms, but if they progress and you’ve got to actually stop treating them, as soon as you can with cortisone and thrombotic agents, then the decision to do this is when the CRP goes up and saturation start to come down. [00:16:52] That’s when we start with, um, um, uh, the intravenous oral cortisone and, um, and nebulization of budesonide. And then as soon as there’s evidence, because of a raised DDIMER of, um, thrombosis, we may start with anti thrombotic agents like xarelto. [00:17:12] So after about nine months of using our protocol in Zimbabwe, we decided to do a retrospective study and Jackie got all the doctors that were using it to send information through. [00:17:26] And we managed to get information on 97 patients. Now, interestingly of these 97 patients, 54 were severe COVID patients who were treated without oxygen supplementation. And the reason for that is there was a stage where Zimbabwe ran out of oxygen and remarkably, um, one of the patients had a saturation of, um, just about 60%. [00:17:55] So to me, that’s a bit of a daunting task to treat someone with saturation of 60% at home, without oxygen, the heart, all of the patients in this boat, um, had saturations below 90% and they all had a positive diagnosis. They were all treated at home and with our triple therapy. And, um, we had no mortalities. [00:18:17] Next slide please. And this is, uh, Uh, diagram of our results. Now it’s not exactly what it looks like. So I just want to explain it to you quickly. Um, it’s showing percentage increase in oxygen and retaining a percentage as, as between, um, the saturation I started with the 95%. So we say, he said 95% was normal. [00:18:44] And then we take this situation on the bottom line. It’s showing you, uh, the oxygen saturation in the blood. So you can see right on the very left and that patient had a situation or just above 65, then the different arrows show you, um, the recovery. Uh, if you just look at that one on the very left within 12 hours, and there’d been a 70% recovery in its oxygen saturation, and that’s quite remarkable of the whole group only two de-saturated a little bit initially, um, and then recovered. [00:19:23] So what I love about this graph, it shows you that as soon as you stop treating the patients start getting better, and that’s not what happens in the hospitals. Um, you’re often asked the doctor, how are people doing so well? They seem to be all right, but you just got to get through the next two days. [00:19:39] Well, not with this treatment, when you start treating this doc getting better. And that’s what I like about it. The next treatment, next slide. And this is just showing when I showed him about the fund in a different way there, we’ve got the saturations going up the left-hand side of the graph, and you can see within a day just about every single patient has got saturations around or above 90. [00:20:01] Now that’s really a lovely way to be able to treat patients at home because you know, you’re going to see them, they might, they might look bad, but you know, by the end of the day, they’re actually going to be a lot better. Now, what we did is we did the C4 outcome predictive for patients in hospital. [00:20:19] And we used that because it comes from England and it’s a predictor where they used 35,000 plus patients where they looked at their co-morbidities and different, um, parameters to work out, um, that their predicted outcome. And then this is used as a standard where you can compare your patients to other patients with a similar severity of COVID. [00:20:46] And, um, when we, we compared ours because all of our patients that were below 94, so they would’ve all been hospitalized if they were there. And what we found is, um, the expected deterioration to, um, the expected number of patients that would deteriorate out of, um, our group of patients should have been 17 and only two did. [00:21:08] And they only deteriorated for a short period of time and then recovered. We did have two deaths, um, that wasn’t included in that deterioration. And then, um, if you look at mortality, the expected mortality was seven and in our group it was two. So you can see the P values are fairly low and significant. [00:21:29] Now let’s stand very good, but you must understand Jackie was treating people at home, um, with a nurse, and, and maybe an oxygen cylinder, and we’re comparing them to a first-world hospital with an ICU and they’re being outperformed. And I really think that that is, um, quite a spectacular result. [00:21:53] So I treat patients at home and I treat patients all around our country. So I’m often treating persons that aren’t even in Johannesburg, where I live. And this protocol and working with it. Um, you realize how good it is that allows you to be more aggressive in the treatment of your patients, because, you know, when you start treating, they’re getting better, you don’t have to worry that you started treating them. [00:22:22] And tomorrow they’re going to really be doing bad. They get better. So you have confidence that they’re going to improve. You know, that once they’ve started improving they don’t deteriorate. I’ve just, I’ve never seen that happen. So, you know, if you get someone with [oxygen saturations] of 75 and their 88 by the evening, you don’t have to worry about them that night, you know’ll they’re not going to go down again. [00:22:45] And they usually wake up and their sats are even higher the following morning. Um, it’s a very safe treatment and it’s a safe thing to do at home. And Jackie’s proved that, um, she’s treated them all the time. And, um, the best part of it all is that you can confidently say to a patient I’m going to get you better, you’re not going to die. And I think of all the things that I do when you tell them that you can almost see them start to get better. It’s just taking that fear that all the press and everything has given to them away. And I think a person who’s positive get bit better quicker. Now, I think we have to hand over to Jackie here because she is, uh, really the backbone of all this and give her comments. [00:23:33] Shabnam Palesa Mohamed: Thanks very much Dr. Martin Gill. Um, I’m not sure if you want to take some questions now, because there are a couple of questions for you already, before we hand over to Jackie? [00:23:43] Dr. Martin Gill: I think what we should do is do it at the end because this is basically both Jackie and myself, and then we can answer them together. [00:23:50] Shabnam Palesa Mohamed: Happy with that. Dr. Jackie stone, my dear friend, over to you. [00:23:55] Dr. Jackie Stone: Okay. So one of the things I want to do, you know, with all this madness, um, let’s actually stop looking at the saving lives and all the rest of it, and actually look at what it actually costs to, um, to not manage this disease early. Now, one of the things we know is that early treatment is a basic principle in infectious disease, if I saw a malaria patient and said, come back when you’ve got terrible malaria, I probably wouldn’t keep my license. [00:24:35] Um, if I was to get an HIV patient or not treat them with triple therapy early, um, what would I be doing. [Inaudible] we use triple therapy, TB. You, you can go on and on. It’s unprecedented to suggest that you use no therapy until the patient reaches an ICU state. Um, we also know from Tom Borody that killing intercellular pathogens requires combination therapy. [00:25:08] And here is some of the myths. Last week in Australia, 1.75 million tests were done in a week. That’s 175 million at a hundred dollars a test. And .8% were positive. 140,000 patients. And I’m not even sure if there was symptomatic or not. If they were treated with ivermectin triple therapy, which is created in Australia – Tom Borody, we’ve started following Tom Borody’s protocols in August, 2020. [00:25:43] Um, what would be the cost of that? It would be $20 a week, probably $280,000. And hospitalization would be reduced according to Tom’s study from 11% to 0.8%. The Australian taxpayers are currently spending about $200 million a week on testing and not treating COVID-19 early. And it’s nonsensical and perhaps we need to stop focusing on what we consider ethically, morally correct and actually start asking why the Australian minister of health’s got his job. [00:26:29] So I’m going to focus on silver here. Martin is the ivermectin king. Um, I don’t know anybody who knows as much about ivermectin as martin. Um, but I started with silver in February 20, February 2020, 19 of February, 2020. Um, and one of the reasons was that I kind of have been interested in it for a very long time. I’d had a medical biochemistry honors degree in 1991 and silver started to come up then. In ’95 in St. Anthony’s hospital in London, it was very interesting that all the patients on silver were surviving. In ’96, the cystic fibrosis unit in London, the nurses quietly nebulized patients with silver and they cleared the pseudomonas. [00:27:28] And in 2003 with the SARS emergency response, um, at that stage, I was looking after 10,000 cabin crew. Many of whom were sick during the SARS epidemic. And I was working with an [inaudible] doctor who also trained [inaudible], and she was saying if it comes to it, nebulized silver would be our only. [00:27:53] First viral pneumonia, I treated was a 51 year old HIV positive male immunosuppressed presented on a 19th of Feb. [Inaudible] although we couldn’t test for it at that stage and his Sats were 84 to 90% on room air. I had very few options at that stage. I’d been making silver predominantly for myself and family members and friends. I had no intention of using it on patients at, um, I told him he needed to go to the state hospital and he said I’ve just been there [inaudible]. [00:28:31] So I nebulized him in silver and we sent him, um, for chest x-ray and bloods. After that, he returned four hours later he had come from somebody who I thought needed admission to well and flirting with the nurses. His x-ray showed viral pneumonia. Um, he was when he presented yet [inaudible] in both lungs. When you came back four hours later, they were gone. [00:29:02] Um, and I really couldn’t account for it. So I spoke to one of the doctors that I know quite well who’s with the college of primary care physicians and said, look, we need to do this as a study. Um, In April, I had a 57 year old male smoker present, um, basically, uh, hypertensive and on a Staton and on Tuesday, the CT scans on the left here. [00:29:42] So quite a lot of brown glass shadowing and quite a lot of, um, this crazy paving pattern on the right is two CT scans, basically show resolution of changes, which is not common in an ICU kind of hospital setting. Um, and the only thing that this man had was nebulized silver. Um, and we’ve known about silver for 5,000 years. [00:30:11] Um, the silver spoon in your mouth was actually to treat the plague and historically for thousands of years silver has been known to have antibacterial qualities. And the amazing thing is how much they knew then and how little we know now. What about Corona viruses? Basically we know that, um, Kelly Bright did a study in 2009, looking at human Corona virus strains and demonstrated significant reduction of virus within an hour when treating with silver. [00:30:51] How does it work? And it’s quite important to understand that ionized silver is produced by electrolysis and it’s about 125 picometres in size. And when you reach super saturation, it starts to form nanoparticles. And the 7 to 12 millimeter particles are probably what coats the virus. [00:31:12] So there’s multiple modes of action, ionized silver is very effective at reducing cytokines. Um, it almost certainly binds to the phosphate backbone of any replicating organism in RNA or DNA. And so it inhibits replication. Um, so it is everything -cidal. It’s virus-cidal, bacteriocidal, fungicidal. And then when you start looking at nano particulate silver in industry, it is used to carry oxygen, carbon tubules to make carbon dioxide. [00:31:54] If we look at over at what causes progression to ICU, and if it’s a high viral load, a cytokine storm, endothelial damage, progressive hypoxia, secondary bacterial pneumonia, respiratory failure, cardiac failure, arrhythmias. We need to stop it, right at the beginning. And we know that iron has inhibits DNA replication in viruses. [00:32:18] And one of my original theories was, um, that it basically stops viral replication. We know that the DNA and RNA backbone is made out of phosphate with our four different bases. Basically, if you are going to get silver to bond to phosphate, it is going to be almost like if you will unzipping a zip, it’s going to get stuck if there’s a silver phosphate. [00:32:52] So we know that DNA is denatured. We see it under the electron microscope when we add silver to E. coli. Enzymes are denatured, replication cannot occur. And if you stop replication, you are going to prevent everything that comes downstream. So we know it does it in bacteria. We also know that it interferes with ATP production in bacteria. [00:33:27] ATP is produced by the outside of the bacteria. Um, and we know it disrupts the cell wall and we know it stops replication. One of the more interesting papers involves pseudomonas and what it did was that they used silver in rats after they had been given pseudomonas. Um, and obviously we know that’s common in cystic fibrosis and those with compromised immune systems and the comment in the paper is that inhalation of silver nanoparticles results in miraculous protection against pneumonia. [00:34:11] And basically all the mice who had, um, were given silver survive and all the mice that were given no silver died. So, and that was two doses spaced 24 hours part. And the authors concluded that silver base menopause by proved the most effective method yet of delivering pneumonia medications. Now, my question is that if you’ve got a hundred percent survival with silver, why do you need to attach it to augmentin or to whichever antibiotic you choosing to attach to? [00:34:51] Um, it seems that it is the silver, that’s doing the trick, not necessarily whatever you’re going to attach it to, but I think all of us have become quite accustomed to the dictates of big pharma, you know, most papers these days are going to, um, promote something that the pharmaceutical industry will fund. [00:35:13] And I, we, we have a hundred percent survival and a disease that has a hundred percent fatality just with silver. [00:35:23] The next thing is what does, and if we look at E. coli and Staphylococcus aureus, basically the bigger, the, the thicker, the membrane, the more silver you need. So we know that at five to 15 parts per million, we will inhibit viruses. [00:35:42] We know that 25 parts per million, we will inhibit E. coli. And we know that Staph. probably needs 50 and candida probably needs 72. But I think one of the other things, um, is that basically at 25 parts per million, we should be inhibiting both bacterial and viral replication. And if a virus cannot replicate it won’t cause a cytokine storm. [00:36:13] And the other important thing is that it cannot mutate. And this is Staph., E. Coli. You can see that about 25 parts per million, you’re getting excellent reduction of, um, bacterial growth. And if it’s going to stop a Staph with the thickness of the capsule of the Staph, it will almost definitely stop the virus. [00:36:38] Um, the cytokine storm is very important. Uh, obviously you’ve got SARS-CoV-2 entry then you’ve got cytokines, then you’ve got thrombosis and the cytokine storm is involved in clotting, shock, lung injury, cell death. And what do we know about cytokines suppression? We know that at 4.5 parts per million, you have a 5.8 fold reduction in interleukin six. [00:37:03] Um, as far as my understanding is of steroids, you think about a 20% reduction in IL-6. So it’s possible that silver is 25 times as effective as steroids. They carry oxygen, this is from, uh, um, industrial paper. And basically if you look at the picture on the left and the right, you can see that the silver particles are much more, um, spaced apart. [00:37:33] And it seems that silver gets into, I mean, oxygen gets into the spaces between nano particulate silver, and that seems to be carried by, by, um, to get access to the hemoglobin. And then back to safety, back to the Hippocratic oath. Um, is it safe? There’s been a lot of stuff by the FDA lately saying, I mean, people have been banned for talking about silver. But prior to COVID, the European economic commission said that it was safe in drinking water, the environmental protection agency, the WHO, the FDA, they have never find- I’ve actually been trying to find a silver death and I still haven’t found one. [00:38:23] Um, the, the argyria, ionized silver appears not to cause argyria. Um, it’s drinking silver that is actually colored. Um, and NASA have been using silver for the water becauseof it’s safety profile and they replaced iodine with silver. There is no observable adverse effect level. [00:38:44] You need 10 grams of silver and without going into too much detail, um, if you have 50,000 courses of silver, you will reach 50% of the dose needed to turn new gray or blue. Now, Martin and I are both aviation medicine trained, um, and aviation medicine is all about risk assessment. Um, and no activity in life is just free. [00:39:10] Risk is probability times consequences. So what is the probability that silver will kill you; virtually zero. What are the consequences of not taking it? Um, you are likened to deteriorate and end up in ICU. So is there an alternative to doing nothing? And there is, there is a safe, affordable, complementary treatment that can be used. [00:39:36] Um, and, um, certainly in my experience, it has significantly relieved hypoxia. I’ve been focusing on the silver because there’s been so much focus on ivermectin, but I can tell you that on the end of August in 2020, I added ivermectin to silver because silver will improve the patient very rapidly in the early phases, but it’s not always sustained. [00:40:04] And in the sicker patients, some of them still died. Um, and once we combined silver and ivermectin, I walked into a unit where I was expecting three bodies in the morning and they were all sitting up chatting, having breakfast. So once we combined silver and ivermectin, um, Martin and I had a chat and on the 7th of August and on the 8th of August, everything turned round and we didn’t lose the patient until Christmas Eve and that patient, we lost mainly because of very late presentation. [00:40:37] So, um, if we start looking at the worst side effect of silver, that can happen, you get argyria and argyria is actually reversible with culation agents. And also your nails go blue before your face does. I think that the going blue in ICU, um, is probably a higher risk. So I think we also need to start looking at the risk of doing nothing. [00:41:08] Um, for the patient, for the medical system, for the healthcare workers and to the economy. And I really think that it’s time to start challenging the narrative and starting to focus on early antiviral therapy. Is it unsafe? No. One of the things I’m going to be dealing with in terms of ethics is that I have a situation at the moment with a patient that is critically sick. [00:41:36] He had a tracheostomy done yesterday and, um, the hospital refused to give early treatment. And the lawyers have said that the treating physician has a moral, legal, and ethical obligation to prove that the treatment does not work. We gave them 260 trials of which 243 showed that ivermectin was effective. [00:42:05] We gave them our Zimbabwean data and they refused to read it. And the bottom line is that it is, the onus is on the treating doctor to prove the treatment is ineffective. In actual fact, if it goes to a court of law. [00:42:28] We’ve reached a very strange world where safe is to do nothing and risk is to use a safe medication in a life threatening situation that is scientific logical and works, um, in our clinical experience. [00:42:46] I think the main thing that we’ve come up with is if not, why not? That’s it. [00:42:58] Shabnam Palesa Mohamed: Thanks very much Dr. Jackie Sone. Absolutely brilliant and fascinating. Uh, I’ve had the privilege of hearing some of your work as well as Dr. Martin Gill. And I know that our partners from around the world have some questions for you on that point, Karen McKenna over to you. [00:43:15] Karen McKenna: Sure. There’s was a question from, uh, Dr. Kilian in Canada. Um, Dr. Gill, what’s your opinion on nebulized hydrogen peroxide iodine mix. [00:43:22] Dr. Martin Gill: I’ve never used hydrogen peroxide. I don’t know, just hydrogen peroxide burns me so I’ve always been a bit worried about spraying it into an airway. Um, I know there are a lot of doctors that are using it and very successfully, so I’m not going to say it’s bad, but I just personally haven’t used it. [00:43:45] Karen McKenna: Thank you. [00:43:45] The next one’s from Lauren Goldstein. Now that it’s hard to get tested. How do you know if you’re dealing with COVID? Uh, or if you just have symptoms of a head cold? [00:43:53] Dr. Jackie Stone: Okay. So the bottom line is that ivermectin and the triple therapy of ivermectin, doxycycline and zinc will inhibit RNA polymerase. So if we look at worst case scenario, if you treat with ivermectin, doxy and zinc and possibly silver as well, um, the worst thing that’s going to happen is that you’re going to treat influenza A, influenza B, respiratory syncytial virus, herpes simplex virus, Epstein-Barr virus, blah-blah-blah and carry on indefinitely, and you’d actually treat Ebola and, um, and yellow fever and West Nile virus as well. [00:44:44] So, the worst thing, one of the things that’s important, and one of the things I’m finding if a patient walks into my room with 10 US dollars, and that’s all he’s got, I can afford to treat him or he can afford treatment. And he will be treated for every RNA virus and he is unlikely to progress. Okay. If I send him for a PCR test, it’s going to cost him $60 US dollars and the tests may be false negative, or if it’s positive, it does not predict severity. [00:45:23] So if we’re going to look at value for money, and that’s what I mean about, we can’t afford not to treat. If we’re going to treat all RNA viruses through inhibiting RNA polymerase, which is done through zinc and silver, um, are we, what’s the worst thing that’s going to happen? These drugs are remarkably safe. [00:45:48] And if we choose not to treat, then there is a possibility that we’re going to have a patient that is going to deteriorate into a cytokine storm and thrombosis. So in actual fact, in a resource limited setting, it’s going to cost you 10 US dollars. To treat everything. And without going into too much detail, if as I’m using ivermectin, doxycycline, I’m also covering malaria, I’m covering atypical pneumonias, microbacteria. [00:46:28] I am covering just about everything. Really, if you’re going to treat something that is going to treat anything that replicates rapidly, what harm are you doing? [00:46:48] Karen McKenna: How are we doing for questions you want me to ask a few more? [00:46:51] Dr. Jennifer Hibberd: Um, can you ask one question, Karen, I collected a few concerns that were put into the chat for Jackie to address because I think it, uh, it puts up flags for everybody. And so I think Jackie could probably address these, um, to help everyone. Thanks. Can you see it in the chat? [00:47:11] Dr. Jackie Stone: The, the, the nanoparticles, the, some of the concerns? [00:47:14] Dr. Jennifer Hibberd: Yes, yes, yes. [00:47:16] Dr. Jackie Stone: Yeah. [00:47:16] Dr. Jennifer Hibberd: There’s three of them there. Yeah. Three points. [00:47:19] Dr. Jackie Stone: Silver nano toxicity is definitely documented and people working in silver factories or in having large amounts of silver nanoparticles. Um, if you look, everything is toxic. If you take enough of it, okay. [00:47:37] At 25 parts per million. And if you using nanoparticles that are under 10 nanometers, you and you’re using them for five days, the average time in their lungs is about 28 days max. So everything has a risk benefit analysis. Um, I personally have never seen any toxicity with silver. And I think that the benefit is always outweighed the risk. [00:48:11] The risk is theoretical. It’s done on histological studies in animals and where we’ve seen significant silver toxicity. It’s almost always been in people who are heavily exposed to industrial amounts of silver. So the devil’s in the dose. [00:48:32] Karen McKenna: All right. What maybe a one more question from the chat Shabnam? From Robert to Dr. Stone and Gill: the effects of colonial or now silvers is determined by many factors, including the amount and size of nano silver particles and the portion that is ionic. What forms of silver have you been using in your protocols? [00:48:52] What is the net silver content per milliliter, is it 10 parts per million? And how much of this is distributed between nano and ionic forms? [00:49:02] Dr. Jackie Stone: Okay. So, um, I’ve also, I’ve got to be careful cause it’s being recorded and I’m in a lot of trouble, um, at the moment. So, um, the silver that we have been using, we import from Israel, um, the nanoparticles are seven to 12 nanometers. [00:49:24] And, um, it’s all looked at under an electron microscope. It’s all being quantified and it is, um, probably sitting at about a hundred parts per million, that we use in our very sick hypoxic patients, we save it for them. Um, certainly in South Africa, there is an ionic form of silver, which is 18 parts per million. [00:49:56] My experience of using that, especially when patients are very sick is that the effects are very transient, um, we’ve got to almost continually nebulized, but 18 parts per million seems to, um, hold the oxygen until the ivermectin kicks in. Um, there are a number of forms, um, certainly in the states, the hydrosols, so Argentum 23 has been very successfully used by a number of people in California and certainly anecdotally multiple lives have been saved. [00:50:43] Um, and Argentum 23 in the nanoparticles are pretty small. They’re all below 10 nanometers. So I think we need to see nanoparticulates now like silver as two separate modes of action. Ionic, silver will bind to phosphate. Um, it will reduce cytokines, nano silver will coat the spike protein and also is a generator of ionic silver. [00:51:12] So it is a bit like a slow release drug. Okay. But, um, you have to be very one of the things, and this is Martin and I’s, Martin and I argue over this it’s one of the few things we argue over is the use of the word colloidal silver, because colloidal silver is used by quacks. And, um, certainly what was very interesting was that evangelist in America that was put on TV saying that he could treat, uh, COVID-19 with colloidal silver, and he only charged 300 US dollars a bottle. [00:51:55] Um, so, and he was renowned for treating STDs and things, so that they’re almost defamed that they made it look like a complete, um, or that they’ve made it into quackery. There’s been a lot of work, especially in Australia with, um, where they are saying we should bend the term colloidal silver, because you can take silver and Chuck it into a, I mean, I’ve got a mixture that comes off my electrodes that are used for wound care that is gray and silver, and I will put it onto a burn or something because it’s incredibly suited, um, because it mops up cytokines and I would never nebulize that into a patient in a million years, whereas a clear silver solution that’s electrically generated, which is also known as oligodynamic silver will, um, almost never cause our argyria. [00:52:58] So the science of silver needs to be regularized. We need to be knowing how many parts per million, we are using of [inaudible]. And if we are using nano particulate, what the size of the nanoparticles are and what their concentration is, and if we maintain our doses as they are at the moment, there is certainly if you look at the no observable adverse effect level, we are dealing in a very, very safe range. [00:53:33] The therapeutic index is about 8,000. Basically the therapeutic index of paracetamal is about 24. So we’re dealing with an exceptionally safe substance if we’re using it in the right concentration. [00:53:49] Shabnam Palesa Mohamed: All right. I think that’s it for our Q and A session. Thank you very much for facilitating Karen and for those responses from Dr. Martin Gill and Dr. Jackie Stone, there are a couple of more comments and questions. If you could please engage them in the chat we’d appreciate that. I know there was one about silver whether it’s helpful with spike proteins and spikopathy in Jab injuries. [00:54:09] Jackie, if you could address that in the chat, we’d really appreciate it, but thank you once again for your contribution, Dr. Martin Gill and Dr. Jackie stone, we appreciate you very much at the World Council for Health. [00:54:20]