Hidden Influence: The Invisible Forces that Convinced So Many | Mind Health Webinar

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Join the WCH Mind Health Committee as we explore this important topic with David Charalambous.

David is a behaviour and communication expert and the founder of ReachingPeople.net, a project dedicated to helping people communicate with those of differing views and showing people how institutions and corporations manipulate us. He has spent the last four years assisting many groups in understanding how governments and institutions have used behavioural science knowledge to influence people. David believes we can improve our effectiveness by understanding certain principles of behaviour and communication.

Resources mentioned in David’s presentation:

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Music Music Music Good morning, everybody. Maybe whatever time in the world it is with you. Thank you so much for joining us today for our Mind Health Committee seminar on the hidden influence, hidden in the invisible forces that convince so many. And it’s such an intriguing topic. We’re so lucky to have David Charalambas here. David is a behaviour and communication expert and is the founder of reachingpeople.net. It’s a project dedicated to helping people communicate with those of differing views and showing people how institutions and corporations manipulate us. He spent the last four years assisting many groups in understanding how governments and institutions have used behavioural science knowledge to influence people. David believes we can improve our effectiveness by understanding certain principles of behaviour and communication. So thank you so much, David, for sharing your knowledge and all you’ve discovered and um good to see you yes indeed so I’m ready to go when you are excellent so today we’re going to look at the hidden influence invisible forces that convince so many Okay, just a minute background on the project. We really looked initially on conversations because back in March 2020, at that point, I had studied psychology, NLP, many other things around perception for about 25 years, and I considered myself pretty good at having debates and dialogues. But all of a sudden, something became very apparent very quickly in that people were not being rational in any way. So our first thing was to understand why these conversations were happening that way and then to start to inform people how they can make them go much better. Second pillar was really messaging. So, so many groups and academic scientific groups have been putting out lots of messages, most of them being censored, obviously. And then we were showing people how to message in a way that would get a lot more engagement, that people would consume the information at a much better rate. And then really the final piece was behavior. And this is a massive piece. And today, really, all of these converge into one. But I think the real focus is on behavior and to look how people have been influenced and then why they are behaving in such a that some would say a strange way. what I’m going to do is I’m going to start with a story from john barr who’s one of the real pioneers he wrote a book called before you know it which is a really interesting book into sort of social science and behavioral science and he was at a cabin that his family owned one day and his brother-in-law was there and the pair of them being early risers were making a cup of coffee in the kitchen and his brother-in-law was a rocket scientist and he said to john he said john look What are the new advances in social psychology? And John turned around and said, well, there’s some really strange things going on. He said, we’re running a lot of studies and we’re finding that a lot of actual people’s decisions and judgments actually are largely unconscious. And his brother-in-law said, well, that can’t be. He says, look, I can’t think of a single time that I made a decision unconsciously. Now, think about that. You wouldn’t know. So we wouldn’t know if we had been influenced without our knowledge and our consent. And a lot of people that have become aware of many of the things that have been happening, they’ve exposed themselves to information that have changed their conclusions. If they hadn’t, you know, the audience, if you hadn’t exposed yourself to different information, you may not have come to the conclusions that you’ve come to. So the exposure to information that we have is really paramount. And hopefully that’s going to be shown today. So when he said that can’t be true, we really want to ask that question. Can we test that? And that’s what social science has really been doing. So we’re going to go this term really, stealth propaganda. It really is the invisible influence that can lead people to have a false sense of security about our opinions, beliefs, and knowledge. By understanding our vulnerability or influence, we can better protect ourselves and understand others’ true intentions. And that’s really key. And it was Will Rogers that said, it isn’t what we don’t know that gives us trouble, it’s what we know that ain’t so. And I think that’s really key, that with a lot of information pumped out in the media now, it’s very clearly easy to see that not all of it is really based on solid principles. So what I want to do now is show you just a few examples of this stealth influence where something is not expected to work, but actually does. And that’s where it becomes stealth because a lot of people would dismiss it. And one of the ones really is this energy builds. So they went through a lot of different tests, as it were, to see what would actually get people to consume less energy. Now, what I’m going to show with these examples is we’re really not going to talk today about the ethical, you know, problems with the use of this. It’s really to show the audience that this exists and what its effect is. And then, you know, there’s other people that, such as the interview I did with Gary Sidley, where we talk about the ethics of that. And I think there is a lot of ethical questions that we need answered. But in this example, they tried lots of different examples where they would tell people how, you know, good it would be to use energy, how they would save money, et cetera, et cetera. None of these had any effect, really. The one that had a massive effect was showing how you as a person was using more energy than your neighbor. That had a massive effect. of decrease in energy usage so what’s going on there is that it’s an invisible influence people would deny that this would have an effect but in fact it had a huge effect and we see this time and time again with social influence in that what others do tend to have a big effect on what we do now this is a very interesting one this was taken out of rory suverland’s book alchemy Now, they do direct response. So they can actually measure what works better than others. And they had 100,000 letters go out to four different sets of people. And they were measuring the response rate. There was four different sets. So they had the top left, they had a tick where you could take and get a 25% tax rebate. One of the envelopes had better quality paper. Another one just had it in landscape. And the last one was hand delivered. Now, if you were to ask an economist which one of these would work, then the economists would say, well, it’s only the top left that should work. That’s the only logical one that should work. Here’s what happened. The tax rebate actually reduced donations by 30 percent. The better quality paper increased donations by 10 percent and had higher donations. The landscape envelope also increased donations by 10 percent and the hand delivered again, increased donations by 10%. Now, this doesn’t make any logical sense. And what’s happened is the behavioral science now has got all this data from a lot of the big data. So it can actually predict what people are going to do much better than people will themselves. Because a lot of our drives, a lot of our belief systems are not directly obvious to our conscious mind. This is, there’s lots of reasons why this may be so. And it’s not as Freud pointed out repression, it can actually be just efficiency. Now there’s some real good news in this, that when we start to understand this, we can catch up with the Googles and the governments and then protect ourselves and then actually understand ourselves much better. And then we can predict our behavior much better. In the past, Humans have been terrible at predicting behavior. You only have to look at the Milgram studies where Milgram had shown that up to 65% of the population would electrocute another person if someone in authority told them to do so. And if you haven’t watched any videos on the study, I’d highly recommend it. But the interesting point was that when he surveyed the experts before the study and he asked them how many people will press that button, the experts at the time predicted less than 1%. So they were not even close in any way. And this is why behavioral science now has become so powerful and it’s a blessing and a curse because there’s so much powerful information there, but it’s not been given to the public. It’s been used to basically condition them to certain belief systems. Here’s another one that when a waitress repeats or waiter repeats the order back to the customer, they will generally get an increase of tips by about 68%. Now that’s quite profound number. Now there is a positive use of this, that if you are going to LEMS to let the customer know that you understand them, that’s good. But if you’re doing it just for the money, then that’s to see. So we’ve got some ethical questions that really need to be addressed, but I think first understanding it is really important. Is the British Heart Foundation now what you will see here is why is the person wearing a mask? They were at home alone going through their stuff. It’s really kind of crazy that this is just there. And then it kind of normalizing the use of these things. And this is really a point of how people learn implicitly, which is they, they mimic and they copy, you know, you see it with fashion, whatever fashion, a lot of the celebrities wear a lot of the public start to wear them. In this next section, I really want to, for us to think about thinking a little bit deeper and really start to rethink about what we think about thinking. I think it’s really important. Now, Rory Sutherland come up with this term, logic versus psychologic. And I think it’s really, really important because so many people things that we’ve learned through our schooling really gets us to rely purely on logic, when psycho logic is really important. I’ll give you one example here. So they had a group of people that were going to go in for a quite a serious heart operation. And they had the data, I think it was in one of the states in the US, and they had the data from all the hospitals in the state, and they offered it to the patient for $50. to obtain that data. And that data showed that from one hospital to the next, there was up to 300% difference in mortality. So this is really, really important knowledge to have because it could have a massive effect on the person’s chances of surviving. They then offered this data to the patients for $50. And how many would you assume paid the $50 to get that data? From a logical standpoint, we would say, well, $50, it’s nothing compared to a person’s life, so it should be close to 100%. Only 8% of people paid for that. On the surface, that makes no logical sense. But when you understand psychologic, you can start to explore why that is the case. And that’s what behavioral science can start to do. Now, one of the things really from the psychologic is really to start looking at what’s known as the elusive obvious. And this was really a book that was written by Moshe Feldenkrais, which was looking at how posture patterns and walking patterns become so automated that we don’t think about them, but also our thinking patterns become so automated we don’t think about them. Now, here’s some things that I’m going to ask you a question. And I just want you to take a moment and think a bit deeper about the question. If someone said, I chose to be angry, do we really choose to be angry? Or is it an emotion that arises in response to circumstances? So pretty much in the pandemic, if people had a strong opinion that masks protected them and someone walked by without a mask, a lot of the time that person would get angry. But they didn’t consciously choose to be angry, did they? And there was a lot of people that work in various as practitioners will say well you don’t have to respond to the anger that’s true you can through meditation and many other modalities you can choose to respond differently but the anger is still arising and you can also use different modalities to change the circumstances and therefore the anger won’t arise but but when it first happens it’s not conscious Someone, if they said to you, are we plans to fall in love at 2 30 PM tomorrow? It’s ludicrous. It’s something that happens automatically. She decided not to feel scared or spiders or heights again, you know, with our thoughts and our reactions, is this automatic? Or is it conscious? So I think we have to look at a lot of our thinking and thoughts that come into our mind in response to our environment, in response to what’s going on, particularly if you ask questions or we’re watching TV or movies. These thoughts might necessarily not be our true nature. I decided to trust this person. Is that a conscious decision? Or is that just something, a conclusion that you arrive at based on all the information? And I would add that a lot of the unconscious mind is doing the legwork for us. And historically, that would be very, very powerful and very, very useful. In today’s world, if someone knows how to manipulate the environment and the information that you consume, and they can have you consume information that isn’t true, then it’s possible for someone to come to a conclusion that doesn’t match reality. Again, I will no longer feel anxious about X. You realize that a lot of what’s going on is that our unconscious mind is doing the bulk of our thinking, our decisions, our conclusions. Now, some people find that a bit unsettling at first, but in fact, it’s really quite empowering when you realize this because you better match yourself to reality And then, of course, these are quite easy to test. Then you can actually become aware of your thoughts and then you can say, well, is this true? Do I need to relook at that? And of course, a lot of people over the last four years have had to change their opinions because of the data that they’ve seen and witnessed and in instances and experiences that things weren’t how we thought they were. And this is really key to understand what’s going on. And we’re just going to touch on this really. So back in the 60s, there was a thing known as Skinner’s black box. And the black box in the middle really represents the mind and really mainly the unconscious mind. And they determined then that they couldn’t really study it. So what they did was they would do a certain stimulus and then they would measure the response and then they could then change the stimulus and measure certain responses and then determine the X amount of people would respond a certain way. They didn’t know why they couldn’t really see into the black box. But this enabled them to manipulate the gambling machines to make them much more addictive by understanding, you know, certain things about reward. And what happened was really sort of 20, 30 years ago was they started to be able to design some very clever experiments to determine what was in the box. You can’t directly access it, but by running a very clever experiment, such as if you produced three boxes of washing powder and you give it to a certain number of people and ask them to tell you which one’s the best washing powder, and then they decide, oh, it’s number one and these are the reasons, But you know that, in fact, the same washing powder is in every box. You then can determine that the person is not chosen because of the reasons they said they actually chose because of the color of the box and then the brains filled in the rest. So it’s experiments like that have been set up in that way to really determine what’s going on in people’s explanations and what’s going on in people’s choices. And if you imagine that they can run so many different studies and really assess so many different variables, that they then can determine which variables will have the greatest effect. Another one where they measured someone, you know, the positive response to watching an interviewee, and then they had the same interviewee, and in one set, the interviewee spilled a coffee. And it turned out that the people watching liked the person more when they spilled the coffee versus the other set of people when they didn’t spill the coffee. And it’s called the Pratt full effect that people feel a greater connection to someone that makes little mistakes. And, but if you ask people, would you, would you, you know, like someone more because they spilled a coffee, they would probably answer no. And you see this time and time again, that the variables at work, we don’t think they would work. And because of the, the data set that the institutions have, that’s why they have a massive advantage predicting behavior. And what I’m going to talk about tonight really is the engine room of the mind, a really little look into this black box. Because understand what’s in there can really start to bring a lot of the power back to us. We can start to understand why people are behaving the way they’re behaving much more than we did previously. And then we can actually start to affect What’s in people’s minds from an ethical way, we can expose them to information in a way that will get into the mind, you know, good quality information will get into the mind much better. So if we imagine this is very similar to the previous slide, we had stimulus and response coming out. But now we’re going to look a bit more in depth for that engine room. We’re going to say, OK, well, if I asked you, you know, what colors your car, these sort of things, we would realize that memories come up. from an unconscious process. So there’s a part of our mind that’s doing all the legwork. Language is largely unconscious. As I’m speaking now, I’m not selecting each word consciously. My mind is doing all that for me. I am looking at the screen. I’m looking at the presentation. I know the point I wish to make. And then my unconscious mind and specifically the adaptive unconscious, which in the recent interview with Tess, I put a lot of links to understand this more, is giving me the words. Can you see how this is elusively obvious to you now as we just ask ourselves the questions and look at it? When you walk down the street, you don’t think about how much weight to put on your left and right foot. Your unconscious mind does all that for you. And this one’s probably one of the most important. Your judgments about people is automatic, isn’t it? When you think about, if I was to mention any of the people over the pandemic, the last four years, you know, Bill Gates, et cetera, you would have an instant judgment of that man based on all your experiences of him. Now, for a lot of people, those experiences have changed recently compared to previously. And that’s why propaganda and PR can be so powerful, because if you expose someone to a lot of positive information about someone, they will generally come to a positive conclusion. If that information doesn’t reflect reality, then that person’s going to see a different picture of that person than they actually are. So really, if we look a bit deeper, we’ll see that in the engine room, And Timothy Wilson in his very good book, Strangers to Ourselves, says that the conscious part of the mind is like a snowball in an iceberg. The real bulk, the power of the mind is in its unconscious capabilities. And we’re going to have a little look into that. And hopefully in a few more slides, you’re going to see some real powerful ways to look at how this happens. And what we’re going to do is we’re going to look at the secret life of Job. Now, Joe is one of the characters on the project. Now, Joe is a very clever man. He’s a maths professor. He pretty much trusted the institutions and still does. And he believes the media is telling him the truth, etc. We’re going to look why that is the case. So if we look at this whiteboard and we imagine this whiteboard is my conscious awareness, almost your mind’s eye. So if you, a thought comes up, it will come onto this board. So if I said, do you watch your favorite car? Joe produces this into his mind. He’s just answering the question. If I said, what do you think about fake news? Well, Joe, you know, watching the media would say, Oh, it’s where those crazy people, you know, they, they spread misinformation and we call that fake news. It’s, It’s not produced from, you know, the trustworthy bodies, et cetera, et cetera. And that’s his experience. Now, obviously there comes a point where someone’s got to start asking questions, but if they’re not exposed to any contradictions in any way, then it’s quite possible for people, you know, and especially putting their head in the sand. So if I said to you, what’s five times five, there’s a little voice in your head that pops up 25. Okay. That’s really when you learn tables as a child that went in. Now, if you imagine that Joe, when he was at school, every time he questioned authority, he was told off and put in the corner and made to wear a silly hat and laughed at. Would he develop the belief that actually standing up to authority is quite dangerous? And then if he got rewarded massively for just doing as he’s told and then he gets a position of authority and respect, there’s a good chance that parts of his mind will just really sort of show him how to basically succeed that way. So this next slide is one of the main slides of the project. And it’s really looking at Joe and his sister, Jane. Okay. Now they’re having complete, you know, arguments day after day, because Jane does not believe much about the narrative and yet Joe, and this is taking two extremes really. And a lot of people experience this in their family and their friends circle. is that Joe believes it fully and he calls Jane, you know, conspiracy theorist, et cetera. And Jane’s calling Joe a shape. And he said, look, why do you believe this? And on the surface, it seems kind of crazy, but they have such polarized view. But when we begin to look into the soapbox, the soapbox we represent in the unconscious mind, and it’s really just a play on that people stand on their soapbox and really sort of speak to the world. But then when we look that these two things represent a magnifying glass, but they’re also filters. So when a fact gets displayed, Joe and Joe are going to look at that fact through their own perspectives, unique experiences of life. Now, if we look in the soapbox and we say, right, so what does Joe believe? Now, the blue is really drives that are in the mind. So Joe is very motivated, if he’s a math professor, to really see things from an authoritative position. He wants to stay in his position. The Green is really an unconscious belief. He may say, oh, I know there’s corruption. But because he’s been so conditioned for his life, he trusts the government. The Red is what he consciously thinks to be true. okay now it’s really important to understand that you can believe something consciously different from which you believe unconsciously and this is where something like the imposter syndrome will come up so you might be brilliant at what you do you might know you’re brilliant but you might feel that you’re not and that comes from a lot of conditioning from school where most people really develop a lot of negative beliefs from the school environment He thinks there’s a scientific consensus, which is obviously very questionable, because there’s an illusion of consensus. And unconsciously, he just got a complete unwavering trust in the media. Because many, probably 20, 30 years ago, the public were the stakeholders, the clients of the media, the buying newspapers and very other things would be the income of the media companies. It’s now that the advertising from big companies and the ownership of the big corporations is where they get their money from. So they will serve them over the public now. And it doesn’t even have to be conscious. Lots of studies show that A lot of influence happens unconsciously in that people don’t bite the hand that feeds them. Now, Jane, if we look at her, she she has a belief that facts change people’s minds. Now, I think all of us will realize that just presenting facts to a person does not change their mind. She knows that censorship is happening. She thinks she’s tried everything to reach Joe. She distrusts the government. She has apathy, great apathy. Now, apathy is really important because it gets developed when you try something and you can’t get it to work. And then a lot of time, we will develop a belief that it can’t be done. So a lot of people have given up trying to reach people because they are not aware of what really works. And once you understand that, you can actually really get very, very good at reaching people. She knows that science can be bought just as much as anything else. So now when we see how they are going to see things completely differently, imagine that Jane presents a fact in a newspaper that is an alternate source. Joe’s going to dismiss it. He’s probably going to do a search and Wikipedia is going to come up and say, oh, they’re conspiracy theorists. By the same token, if Joe presents a BBC article, Jane’s going to go, well, that’s just state media and dismiss it. One really, really important point to understand here is that context is more important than content. So where the fact appears is actually more important than the fact itself. But we don’t take that into consideration because we can’t see it. So it’s an invisible force, a very, very powerful invisible force. So the fact that all the media companies in the UK, as example, and I presume it’s very similar around the world, have to report according to the governing bodies and it’s off common in the UK. And if you look at their terms and conditions that companies have to abide by and read between the lines, they pretty much can’t report certain things. So you’re not going to get complete unbalanced journalism when the governing bodies plus the huge influence of the advertising revenue and the companies that own them. But Joe’s not going to take that into consideration. And there’s many, many examples of where the media does not actually print a story when it usually would have done so in the past. And this is why you’ll see Joe say, if that were true, it’d be on the news. That’s just a real hidden assumption from Joe’s conditioning. And obviously, Jane has been exposed to certain data that shows that’s not to be the case. So let’s just have a little look at what’s happened to Joe for him to form these opinions. So basically, he’s watched people dropping dead in the street. Highly questionable whether this actually happened. But the adaptive unconscious, the unconscious mind looks at that and says, right, I’ve got to pay attention to this. It’s dangerous. And then there was a relentless propaganda drive to have a certain story put into the public’s mind. And many, many institutions, many, many companies were there. There was free donuts, et cetera. All of these really had a psychological use. The free donut’s very powerful because the person’s going to turn around and say, well, I can’t obviously have a medical procedure from a donut. So in order to resolve that cognitive dissonance, they have to believe in the product more. They have to buy into it working. Otherwise, they’re going to look silly. So the greater the reward, the less buying to the product. So that’s why you would have seen very, very minor rewards. celebrities people want to be like the celebrities they find that they trust even though why you would trust a musician over a medical procedure doesn’t make any logical sense but psychologically it will it will have a big effect and then we’ve got the big institutions and if you repeat something a thousand times and jason christoph did a fantastic job in his presentation of how repetition is really one of the keys if you tell someone a thousand times something safe and effective does that make it any more safe and effective not in reality But to the unconscious mind, it does. If you’re not aware of contradictions there. So if we look at that engine room now and imagine on the left, that’s the engine. And then we have Joe. What’s going to happen is that Joe’s going to come to a conclusion based on so many variables that are literally outside of his awareness. So he’s going to come to a judgment in a split second. And what’s going to happen? It’s almost like a hallway of mirrors. If you’ve ever been to one of the theme parks where they have this, they have in a row and then you get this very strange picture from all the various light banging off of them. And what would happen is that he would actually come up with a conclusion that might be, oh, it’s safe. OK, but if so, then the real key point here is that on the left is all the inputs and those inputs are invisible to Joe. They are in an instance. And if you try to challenge the output, that is like trying to, you know, you have a Word document, you print it out, and then you see a spelling mistake, and you don’t change it on the computer. You just print it again, thinking it’s going to change. It’s not going to change until the inputs change. They reframed if you get an adverse reaction, then it’s good. If you feel ill, it’s working. And then a classic one was they had it where if you get COVID, and you’ve been jabbed, then it would have been so much worse if you weren’t jabbed. There’s no logical reason why that happened. There’s no data to support it. But because that was repeated time and time again, that became into the person’s unconscious on the left. And that’s the conclusion they came to. They weren’t aware that that conclusion was actually predictive programming. It was placed in their mind. And in fact, as humans, thinking is not easy. It’s actually quite difficult. It takes up a lot of energy. And there’s a very funny, famous quote in behavioral science is like thinking to humans is like swimming to cats. They can do it, but they would rather not. If you can have something prepared for you, it’s much easier. It’s much more useful. We have to come to this in today’s world. We actually have to go down the more difficult path. It’s not easy, but I think most of us now know that’s the option we have to take. Now, if we look at Jane, OK, the ones in green are really, really important because If Jane gets exposed to many, many instances where she can’t get through to someone or it just seems too difficult, what can really easily happen is she can say, well, what can I do? Okay. And what can I do? Said 7 billion people. But here’s the thing to understand is that the apathy has been conditioned to be there. Okay. That’s the perfect condition. conclusion that they want people to come to but I’m sure that if you realize that hang on a minute is that apathy my true nature yeah to stick two fingers up to the people condition you say okay I’m going to change this and there are many techniques where we can actually start to really get inside of our mind and really clean up and I’ve been working on my own mind and trust me there was a lot of stuff in there that really wasn’t very useful and this I’m sure there still is because you can’t see directly into the into the mind but what you can do is you can Really start to understand what’s in there by just observing your thoughts and many other tests you can do. And you can look how you respond in certain situations. So if you’re in a situation where you want to approach someone who authority, but you feel nervous or anxious about doing that, that is your unconscious mind’s conditioning. And that can actually be very straightforward to resolve. I know because I had that myself. At the first marches that we went to, I had a bit of anxiety about approaching the police. I did some exercises, and then I was able to do it without the fear anymore. So really coming back to this now, hopefully you can see, you know, and really understand much more about if you were just to present a fact, you know, that’s not going to have much impact But if you were to present a fact in a story in a media newspaper that Joe trusts. Yeah, and there are them out there because not all the journalists, you know, they’re indirectly controlled, but lots of information does make it into these corporate media. And you really selected those from names that he would trust. You can actually start to move his dial. okay and then you could even you know quote some of the stories out of the book slanted by shower atkinson that shows many many stories about where a news article should have been published because it was in the public’s interest but it was censored because of ad revenue this is a video that is really worth watching to understand that Darren Brown and there’s there’s Jason Kristoff showed one in his presentation of how people in there, you know, it was influences in the one that Jason showed, will actually influence themselves and invisibly. So and in this one, Darren Brown actually shows to ad execs puts them in an office and says, I want you to come up with a slogan. And Darren predicted almost exactly the name that they would come up with, the pictures, the strap line. And he did that by placing lots of information subliminally into their exposure as they were on the way to the office. So really, in summary, what we’re going to just really say is that stealth propaganda is there. So we really want to understand the information we’re exposed to, make ourselves exposed to very good information because it’s going to make it into our mind. So, you know, people really want to choose whether they watch less TV. It’s going to have an effect whether you know it or not. be you know we need to verify information we need to really have a discernment about this but when you start to see if there’s any problems in there like you don’t have the confidence you want there’s a lot you can do about that and we’ve run some presentations on our channel about that but here’s a really really key question when we’re talking to someone where do we focus inputs or outputs hopefully now you should see we should start thinking about if they come to a conclusion such as if that was true it’d be on the media our focus is on showing them information that will negate that but in a way that we’re not threatening them in terms of their ego you know you show them that they they’ve been misled okay but it’s really the key point on where you put your attention if you argue with their output you’re effectively, you know, when we argue with each other as experts, we’re effectively saying, no, that’s not true. And we could always say, you are wrong. And that’s the quickest way to put someone under defense. So really pace, never really challenge the output. Start to reconnect them back to the input, because there’s a chance that a lot of those inputs are just automatic. They are not conscious. And when they start to realize, and you can ask certain questions like, you know, would a drug company, you know, have a reason to hide some data if they made hundreds of billion from it I mean everyone knows that happens in real life but until the attention is drawn it doesn’t factor into their conclusion and yeah so I think that’s a really key part to understand it’s really now you know so hopefully now there’s a lot of things you know about thinking that will really make you curious to understand this a bit more. And there’s some real fantastic books and videos and I put them in the article that went out by a test lobby. I’m sure Anne can put a link to that. And you only have to read a few books and then you find yourself in a position where you understand so much more about yourself and the public. So for further information, you can go to the website reachingpeople.net or you can email us at info at reachingpeople.net. We have many more presentations on this subject as well as on conversations, messaging, and behavior in a wider context. So I’m gonna open that up for Q&A. Thank you so much, David. That’s really, that was a lovely run through, understanding what we’re up against, And of course, I think people need to understand what’s out there before they can do anything with it. And like you say, I think that that was helpful to me to be go back to the input, what’s inputting into people to really take them back there and ask questions from there rather than, you know, the statement that they’re coming with, because, again, you end up going nowhere and you just get tangled up in all sorts of things. So going back to You know, when somebody says something, actually thinking, well, how did they get to that conclusion? You know, what what sort of triggered it? And this whole thing about asking questions and telling stories. But, yeah, being, you know, and I think being more compassionate, understanding the whole, how they’ve been, you know, how they’ve been, you know, sort of the whole, they’ve been really sort of taken to the cleaners and spat out in another way and just being compassionate. That’s what’s been going on. There’s that thing they say if you’ve walked in someone else’s shoes. And, yes, there are a number, and this is the thing, there’s so many different types of people. Okay. The medical professionals, I think, yes, they had a duty to understand it more. Okay. You have, you know, a lady, you know, in a man in her seventies at home, like how would they have been exposed to information where they would see something different? So we, we can’t lump everyone together. The one thing I didn’t go into tonight was drives because it’s a really deep, important subject, but motivated reasoning. See those people, that magnifying glass, right? What that also does is it filters information. So if you have a pro vaccine professor, he has such a motivated reasoning not to see this as dangerous. Okay. His mind is going to really manipulate reality for him. This is what happens. It’s been shown time and time again, that when people are, you know, Things like conflict of interest, it has a massive effect, conflict of interest, but people won’t admit that it has an effect because they don’t consciously realize it’s affecting them, but the studies show it does. So this is the thing… about the invisible that some people are being influenced without their knowledge some people are being put in the head in the sand some people you know so there’s all different types of people but I think what we have to do is the thing I think about is being very practical okay so we will get through to people much better by and it’s really hard if they’ve been calling you names, but if you can give them a space where they feel respected, even if they’ve been an asshole to you, you’re going to really have a much, much better chance of opening them up. So I see there’s a couple of questions coming through. I think being aware of our own subconscious stuff is part of the solution. As an example, If I have unresolved anger about someone not listening, when I speak to them, that anger is going to come through. Okay. It’s unfair. It’s completely unfair because what we have ourselves in, and this is really important. In fact, Malcolm Gladwell, who hopefully many people have heard, he’s wrote a few brilliant books. He will say, he’s actually says in the, he wrote the introduction to the person versus the situation. And he said, it’s a book impacted his career more than anything else. So in fact, the people that are pushing narratives and agendas, they know that the situation has a greater effect than the people in the situation. For instance, where I used to live, I take my dog for a walk, and it’s at the top of a hill. It’s actually called Pier Hill, and there’s a zebra crossing there. Now, I almost got run over on that zebra crossing about 100 times because it’s in a really stupid place, okay? As different zebra crossing would actually, you know, never get almost run over. So the actual place in the zebra crossing, it wasn’t that everyone was bad drivers. It’s that all the cues that they were getting from their driving would lead them not to realize there’s a zebra crossing there but when they get so close to it they’re not able to stop and they just go I’m just going to continue so what you find is the situation tends to have a real big effect on people’s behavior but they won’t notice so if you can convince some people that anyone that challenges their narrative are crazy and they believe that and then the people that are real critical thinkers think the other people are sheep then the people pushing the narrative have done a brilliant job because what they’ve done is they’ve stopped dialogue and it’s actually the situation we’re placed in so sometimes I mean if you went on to a debate on the you know say that that that piers morgan guy okay it’s going to be so set up the situation is going to be so stacked against you that it’s going to be very difficult to get your point across. Make sense? So the actual situation that’s created has such a massive powerful effect and it’s up to us to understand the situation and then you know we can really start to overcome a lot of the hurdles but answering the question yes if you if you find it very difficult to talk to someone without getting angry that is the perfect situation that they’ve created to stop you getting through to them because anger is actually the emotion you lash out and in fact a lot of people don’t like listening to someone that’s angry hey a lot of the scientists that are speaking up have every right to be angry I’m not saying it’s not right I’m not saying it shouldn’t be there I’m saying it’s completely unfair but the practical effect is it will stop people listening So the next question, what gives you hope, confidence in a beautiful new world happening? I think awareness. I think that when you spot the game, and I look at my own four years ago, I had a full sense of security that I understood communication much better than I actually did. I had a very rude awakening. I’ve had certain things happen to me the last couple of years, which at the time I would have said were a bit traumatic. But in response afterwards, I said that There’s a term called post-traumatic growth that sometimes those things that happen to us give us such a bump to learn new things. Now, what’s happened in the last four years is that there was things happening in the world where people were disconnected from reality, whether it be the banking system, the medical system, trusting the government that is looking after us rather than big corporations, et cetera, et cetera. And you’ve had a massive disruption to that. And that’s why I think that, you know, there is a new thing going on that people are now, once you become aware of, that some of the beliefs you hold are not your true nature. So once you realize if you have a lack of confidence, that’s not your true nature. And then you can do something about that. I think then we’ll see people really, real connecting back with who they really are. So what book on offer you recently mentioned? Was it the, it may have been the alchemy book by Rory Sutherland. Yeah, I think it was the, was it the person versus the situation? I think that was the book. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s, it’s a person versus the situation by Lee Ross. Now Lee Ross has got a really wonderful, I mean, he seems to have been a lovely man. I think he’s passed away now, but he wrote a few books and he really seems to be a very humble and lovely man. He’s got a lovely Ted talk called the objectivity illusion. So yeah, that book’s very, very powerful. It’s, it’s a long, big book, but it, contains some of the most important social psychology studies and when you read through it you will really start to understand the human mind at a much deeper level oh that’s great so someone is saying any other question yeah I think someone is isn’t able to see the um questions of the answers but I’m not sure how that can be helped um I’m just looking at um I can’t see the questions or the chat. I’m missing something. So I’m not sure if that’s I think there’s different little boxes. You can just try the little boxes on the side. They seem to be separate ones. Yeah. So, yeah, hopefully that’ll help. But yeah, that’s really true, David. You know, you’re saying it’s your awareness and this post-traumatic growth. You know, when things happen, it’s looking into ourselves just as much as trying to understand what’s going on out there and how other people are behaving. But just to realise that we have a huge amount of work to do on our own selves. And you’ve often mentioned that book, The Sedona Method, as really important. Yeah, it’s a brilliant book. amen yeah so the sedona method is a wonderful book to so here’s how I look at emotions and thoughts now they’re messages so on my conscious mind thoughts coming up emotions are coming up I don’t have to identify with a thought or an emotion okay I can experience it and I can say oh an emotion come up then do I need to sit with that do I need to sit and process that because it’s a message Okay. So if I’m going to say, I want to go and speak to a police officer on a March and I just want to ask him his opinion of what’s going on. If my body starts to get anxious, OK, that’s a message that fear or something else has been elicited. Now, my body’s trying to talk to me. If I try to suppress that, it’s not really going to have much effect. You know, and people, you know, some careers are very good at repressing their emotions. But if I really process that and get in touch with that, and the Sedona method is one of, you know, EFT is another great thing. Lefkoe method is brilliant for belief systems. I’m just finishing one of the courses on that at the moment. And that’s had a profound effect over my belief system. Because if you start to notice your thoughts, then you can start to understand what sort of belief might drive the thought. Yeah. So say someone, you know, there’s a gentleman and he wants to go and ask a girl out. OK. And then he feels nervous and he doesn’t feel he’s good enough. OK. Right. There might be no conscious reasons for that. He might be perfect. They might be perfect for each other. But that’s his conditioning. OK. And the thing is, there’s a very famous quote. I think Bruce Lipton was saying to me, he said, and it’s attributed to many different groups, but they say, give me a boy of six and I’ll give you the man. So many of the belief systems almost set the scene for the direction that we go. And I think now if we become aware of we are more than our beliefs. OK, if I get exposed to a certain situation multiple times, it’s quite easy for me to develop a belief. But when I realize that that’s a truth, not the truth. yeah if someone’s late it doesn’t mean don’t respect me it might mean they respect me more in a different you know in their culture might be that you’re so relaxed about time okay if someone doesn’t give me attention it might mean that they’re busy it might mean you know I might say oh I’m not important so these things are really key because when you start to realize that that adaptive unconscious, that bit on the left, all that processing up to when we think is really important information. And when we can start to change those inputs. So I think from the left-hand method, they say there’s, there’s roughly 23 beliefs related to confidence. So when we have positive settings of those beliefs, we will win naturally confident. Okay. And confidence is a very funny thing because people think that it’s a conscious decision. Okay. But is it? Think about it. You’re either confident or you’re not. Okay. And you’re either confident or not about certain things. But if you start to understand where those inputs come from, okay, and the school environment is one of the really not the best at all for giving people positive beliefs. Okay. And I think a lot of people realize that now. And, you know, so if you think about how people interpret their information. Okay. So I know that I was talking to one of behavior scientists a few weeks ago, and she said, another behavior scientist visited her. And he said, Oh, I just wanted to have it. So they left me alone. Think about what the assumption there is that there’s this institution or whatever they say, I must do I must do. Where’s his sense of autonomy responsibility in his own world? But because we’re so used to, as a people, we’re so used to handing over authority and power to an institution that people just assume it’s done. There was the social experimentist guy. He walked into Hyde Park wearing a yellow vest and a tannoy and started ordering people to move. And they just followed along. Okay? No one said, it’s just some random guy walking along with a tannoy. But if you’d have said to those people beforehand, if some random person comes up with a tannoy and a yellow vest and started telling you what to do, would you follow along? They’d say no. Wouldn’t they? So you see this contradiction about what we think we would do and what we actually would do. And I think… Everyone that’s watching this has probably already passed the test of would they stand up? You know, would they say no when things didn’t make sense? So you already know there’s that in you. But to have empathy for the people that don’t have the courage to do that can be very useful. I had a gentleman phone me up a while ago, and he told me about how his wife had passed away to the vaccines. Okay. That gave me so much empathy to understand from his point of view, because he said, I thought I was, we were doing the best thing to hear those stories really exposes you to things in a different way. Now that’s wonderful. And I think you’ve answered Jan’s question. She said from the newsroom, given the main goal is to reach people through effective communication. are you suggesting that we need to work on our own subconscious issues before we can reach others? And I think, you know, like you were talking about, the other thing, you know, as well as the Sedona Method, the LEFCO, is it the LEFCO method that you said is really helpful for our… Yeah, it’s L-E-F-K-O-E. L-E-F-K-O-E. It’s very, very powerful. L-E-F-K-O-E. It was from Morty Lefco. And there’s a few… You can actually… I think if you go to the Lefkoe website, there’s you can actually do one of the beliefs for your charge and he just talks you for a video. And so it’s basically a process where you you tune into a belief you see and then you realize that, for instance, you know, I’m not good enough. OK, if someone was to say that I have seen that in nearly every single client I’ve had for the last 20 years. It’s almost that the situation of school and growing up in a family, it almost gets put into nearly everyone. Even when I’ve seen people that have come from very, very good schooling, still have it there. Okay. Now, if you’ve got a very good practitioner, it takes about 30 minutes to reverse that. Okay. Which I think is just profound to be able to change it. Our beliefs create our reality. Okay. And the people’s beliefs that are, and you think about it, our beliefs about whatever’s happening in the world, most people are getting from the media. So the media effectively reaching into people’s minds and creating the beliefs as they want them to be. Okay. And then people’s behavior is reflecting their belief system. But if they are developing different beliefs and if you take control of your own beliefs, then you’re pulling the power back. And I think that’s what humanity appears to be doing. There’s this sort of awareness going on there. Hang on a minute. You know, is apathy my true nature? Do I really want to be someone that feels that way? And it’s important to to not. Repress it because positive thinking has quite a limited effect. I much prefer to connect to the deeper parts of us, resolve the issues, understand that that’s not our true nature. And then we don’t have to pretend to be something we’re not. I mean, that’s because a lot of the positive thinking is like someone to go to feel that they’re not good enough, but then to say, oh, I’m good enough. No, you want to actually get it so you feel good enough, yeah, that you can get back to that source and change it. Yeah, no, that’s science. That sounds I think this is it. It’s like there was a comment saying the greatest problem is people’s obedience to the globalist tyranny. And, you know, so this this is the thing we’ve been conditioned to be obedient. And then people think they have to fight the globalists all by themselves, which, of course, and get overwhelmed. And so, you know, there’s there’s a lot of energy either way. And then it’s just this just withdrawing consent to what they, you know, withdrawing consent to what they want. And again, that’s like a huge confidence in ourselves. You know, we need to feel that, understand ourselves so deeply and be compassionate and see what’s going on. And know how we can be manipulated, but know how to drive our own cars to get to the place we want rather than being directed. Yeah. And, you know, certainly I know that the World Council of Health really push self-responsibility. It’s about that. You know, the power, if someone has power over you, if everyone takes that power back, they have no power. OK? And there’s varying degrees of self-responsibility, how a lot of what’s happened in this generation, the previous generations didn’t realize, really, what was going on. And there’s lots of situations that have been created where then new laws come in, and it takes more and more power away. That’s why awareness is so key. Firstly, be kind to yourself. OK, because when I looked at first, when I started to see and I basically think what behavioral sciences is discovering here is what Jung talked about as the shadow. When you first start to see your shadow, it’s not a pretty picture. A lot of people have had various degrees in this, but I’ve seen lots of behaviors and beliefs in my unconscious mind that really weren’t pleasant. And I could have pushed them away and hit them. But if you face them and just be gentle with yourself, then that compassion is really important. I think Krishnamurti said, observation without judgment is very powerful. And if we can learn to do that with our people, yes. I mean, you have every right to sell someone to get stuff if they’ve been nasty to you. But that is exactly what the globalists want. They want the people fighting against each other. OK, it’s a perfect situation for them because they’re not in the picture. Yeah. And you’ve got people, you know, with all sorts of stuff. But. I think there is 10 to 20% of people that spot patterns. They spot the lies much, much better. And I think it’s our responsibility to first be grateful for that because, you know, yes, it is hard to be part of that group, but would you swap? Would anyone swap to be someone that believed things that weren’t true? And I don’t think they would. I think, you know, it’s really to have gratitude that, you had enough awareness to see through things, but then have empathy for those that didn’t or couldn’t or didn’t have the courage or the drive or the awareness or whatever it may be. And there is a small group of people that, in my opinion, should spend a lot of time in prison, if not indefinitely. But there’s also a lot of people that are misguided. There’s certain people that thought they were doing the right thing, you know, because it was a very convincing story from, they covered every base. Yeah. It was like oceans 11. So they create this false reality. They took care of every little detail. You know, you only had to, it was, yes, it’s a house of cards and you had to look behind the curtain and it was easier for some than others. But I think, you know, if we can find, find ways to really start connecting with people then we can start to bring that house of cards down much faster yeah look you know thank you so much david it’s it I think it’s just so important because it’s a way I think people are now saying we need to take stock of ourselves and see what you know what’s really working and what isn’t and how are we going to get out of this and it is it’s going to take um um like you say, we’re privileged to have this knowledge. We’re privileged to be exposed to knowing the mechanisms. And I mean, it can seem a bit overwhelming, but like you say, it’s knowing that in, you know, it’s like we could have been as exposed You know, in this in a different situation, you know, we would have reacted in the same way and having that idea. Well, look, we were privileged. And I’m sure the thing is, too, that, you know, the people have spotted things because they’ve had more experience. It’s just like we were conditioned as children. But we are also privileged. conditioned by situations and we’ve been lucky to be surrounded by people who have been able to inform us too. And I think it’s the method of passing on that information. But again, it’s going to take us, you know, really being very compassionate and you know it’s not you know we can’t there was somebody said you know we can’t just react you know we can’t use we have to learn how to utilize our primitive brain and cortex to determine whether we’re proactive or reactive yeah yeah and I think everyone everyone has a right to feel the way they do. Okay. And loads of different people respond to loads of different messages. So lots of people that are speaking out a certain way, the people that they reach, they’ve probably already reached, you know what I mean? It’s like this thing is this funny story that Rory Sutherland says in the box, he says in the book, he says, if you want to find out what kitchen stuff, you know, plates, whatever is dishwasher proof, he says, just put everything in the dishwasher for a year. And by the end of the year, everything that’s not broken is dishwasher proof. Okay. And he says, that’s almost like logic. If you approach your logical problems, all the ones that can be fixed by logic will be. So effectively, I think everyone that can be reached by strong facts, you know, all the various hard hitting documentaries and whatever, probably already aware. Okay. So to try a different way with a lot of other people makes sense. There’s two books. If you want to try and reach someone, there’s two books I highly recommend. proviso is before I say what books they are both of these people are heavily bought into the narrative so they’re going to tell loads of stories which probably aren’t true but here’s the key the structure of the book is the key thing the content that that person believes is only because that’s the information they’ve been exposed to but the other information they’ve been exposed to is under what situations a person will change their mind And that’s a really important thing. So the two books are The Influential Mind by Shari Tallow. And the other one is How Minds Change by David McCraney. Now, Shari is the typical sort of neuroscientist, which very much believes in the institutions. She thinks science is much alive. And it was Angus Stegallese that said on Sunday at the event I was at that it’s almost died. I think what’s happened is that a lot of truths have been revealed and David McRaney, actually, I think by the end of the book, I had a lot of understanding that because he, he talked about ivermectin has been a horse dewormer, but that’s probably the information he’s been exposed to. But in the books, they’re very powerful in showing people under what conditions a person’s mind will change. And, and both, both books pretty much say, say, that it’s not presenting facts. The human mind responds very differently to what we’ve been logically told it responds to. And I think everyone’s experience over the last four years will prove that. One of the quotes is that if you have a piece of information that’s really important for someone to know, you assume they’re going to want to know that. That’s not the case. Yeah, that’s so important, that point. Yeah, because as soon as something hits you, you think, oh, I have to tell people. But it does. It sort of lands like a lead balloon. And it is that sort of awareness and processing and pausing and slowing things down and practicing. And I think it’s like we all need to go on a big retreat and kind of re kind of really understand ourselves first and practice. Yeah, but there are many things you can do, right? Yeah, because I recommend the clients, you know, grab a copy of the Sedona book, spend, you know, create a lovely space, 10 or 15 minutes a day, sit with the emotions, process them. We’ve been so overwhelmed. I mean, I have to do it because I find from time to time things will get to me and I’ll go, OK, this is just natural. You know, I haven’t done enough walks or I haven’t, you know, so it’s really just be aware of. of how you’re feeling and just have some spaces that you can get some relief from the just onslaught of stuff that we seem to be under. Yeah, no, that’s good. Well, look, I think you’ve, thank you so much. You’ve shared so much valuable information and the wonderful thing, this is all recorded. And Emma, we can probably get the books that David, you recommended, like you were saying, the influential mind and how mind works. Yeah, but they’re all in the article. There’s an article on Tess’s Substack. That’s perfect. And in the resources section of that, there’ll be all of those. There’ll also be six or seven books that I highly recommend reading. on Understand the Unconscious Mind. And for each book, there’s a YouTube presentation that you can watch beforehand, free of charge, and decide if that’s the book you want to buy. And the presentations are by the authors. Now, Timothy Wilson, he pretty much coined, I think he’s one of the guys that coined the term the adaptive unconscious. It really seems like a lovely guy. He’s actually written a book called which I have purchased, but I haven’t been through yet, which has a lot of exercises to get to know yourself better. And we did a presentation a few weeks ago, which will be on the channel soon about, it was called, you know, Exploring the Shadow. And it’s really just self-inquiry. And I think that’s where we are. And I think Jung said that, you know, it’s humanity’s shadow that’s causing so many of the problems. And you think about the people that are trying to control the world, okay? I mean, literally that can’t be fulfilling. Yeah. So that’s just a hole in their soul, which, you know, if they were to heal and obviously, you know, I, I haven’t met them or whatever, but if someone has a hundred billion and they still feel that they need to have 20, 30 more billion, then that’s obviously a massive hole, isn’t it? Yeah. I mean, the good that they could do with that amount of money, but you know, none of us would make that because at 1 billion, that would be enough, wouldn’t it? I mean, like, you know, far more than enough. But the thing that you can do with that money, but you see what it is, it’s, it’s a part of the mind that’s completely out of control and it’s control. Okay. And this is where we’ve got to find this balance. But you know, if we take our power and our control back and all these things, you know, it’s going to shift the, the landscape. Yeah. Well, I think that’s right. And I mean, Tess is your interview with Tess is such a great resource and you’ve got so many good interviews and you’re actually the website reachingpeople.net. The videos and interviews on there are invaluable, I think, for people to kind of digest. And like you say, you know, where it is a time for you know, we can really, you know, that I think some, you know, Lynette was saying there is, you know, hope for totally different world from this sort of, somebody said this master slave dichotomy that there’s, you know, there’s something so much better coming if we can work on it and work on ourselves. Yeah. Well, the thing is that there’s a really good video on the adaptive unconscious that There’s a part of our mind that wants reality to match our belief systems. So if we have a belief that we’re not good at math, and then we suddenly do well in a maths exam, our mind’s going to play that down and say, oh, it’s just lucky. It’s just a fluke. Because this is what I’ve found myself holding myself back in so many different areas. Now, to force through, you can’t. And this is why visualization is so powerful, because that can really change those pictures in the adaptive unconscious. And yeah, so Emma showed the website there. We run a lot of free Zoom calls. If anyone wants to attend them, they can sign up. Or if they want to find out more about the project, they can look there. So it’s been lovely to see you both again and to share this information. I do really think that a lot of the answers that people seek are in the behavioral science because you just have to look. Yeah, you’ve got to wade through the various pages to find out so much about ourselves. Yeah, and you’ve got lots of thanks. So Emma’s hosting or someone’s hosting a retreat, 11th to the 14th of June, and lots of hellos from all around the world. And thank you so much. Thanks to doing the podcast and blessings. Be the change and keep planting the seeds. And thank you, David, for all your work in this area. It always helps, even though personally I’m still struggling with a few people in my extended family. Yes, they will be more difficult because of the dynamics. Yeah. But you can, we’ve actually, there’s a video on our YouTube channel, which I think it’s called, we made it just for Christmas. It’s called Dreading Family Gatherings. Just doing that exercise as I did and David in the video did, it really helped with our connections to our family. Yeah. Really, really powerful. And it’s basically time on the mat. You know, we all may know that, going to the gym will make us fit but unless we actually do it it won’t have any effect yeah so it’s really it’s really time on the map with a lot of this perfect thank you so much and I think that’s it you know like and time you know time does help change we we change and other people change so that’s hopeful so yeah thank you emma thank you david and we’ll say goodbye Thank you, everybody, for joining from fabulous places around the world. It’s so exciting to see where you all are. And, yeah, we’re so privileged to have this chance. My Samantha is about to get her walk now. She makes an appearance on the interview. I thought I heard when she perked up the collar shake. She’s the honourable timekeeper. Well, she is certainly so clever. She hears the change in tonality. You know, when you’re about to finish a telephone call, the tone suddenly changes. She hears that and she comes for a walk. So, yeah, it’s been lovely to see you all again. Thank you all for viewing. Yeah, I think that we can all make. Really, the question is, what can we do? Yeah, and a lot more than we realize. We can do so much. And thank you for sharing so many resources. I did put the link to the interview with Tess in all of the chat so people can follow up with that. This video will stay up wherever you are watching it right now. And I’m also going to add it to the video library on the World Council for Health website. So on that post, I’ll fill it out with links. I’ll put the link to tess’s the interview with tess and I’ll get all the resources from that as well so that’ll be a good central place for people to come back to if you’d like to visit this again or if you want to share it and come back and see some of those resources if you didn’t get a chance to write them down or whatever it might be um just give me a couple days to get all that up um and then let’s see next week we have another quantum healing with jerry pives um That happens on Zoom and the registration link is up already on the MindHealth committee page. So worldcouncilforhealth.org slash MindHealth if you would like to sign up for that one. And then something else the Wednesday after that that I don’t have from the top of my mind, but it’s time for someone to go for a walk now. So we got to go. This is the thing. When we start to take control of ourselves more, we understand that know we can go for a walk in the woods we can we can turn the tv off for a while you know I know that we want to consume we want to know what’s going on but we want to keep ourselves balanced and strong as well you know and you know before you build a wonderful building you know the old one has to come down yeah and when the old one’s coming down it’s not very pleasant is it yeah And the world is, I mean, think about what’s happened over the last four years, how many brilliant scientists and doctors and members and any, all the different industries and people, they now know stuff they didn’t know. Yeah. It’s incredible the amount of information that’s changing. Yeah. So that’s going to have a ripple effect, but yeah, we’ve got to take responsibility for ourselves and see what we can do. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you all. And see you in the evening. Ciao, ciao. Bye. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, everyone. 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